2 things.
Iraq War
Israel - Palestine conflict

ducky is correct about both and wishes to address both here

1. Iraq War.
read this in the Age.
http://suprbay.org/archive/index.php?t-12302.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/ ... 9494.shtml
it is well known that lefty ducky is and always has been, strongly in opposition of this blatantly stupid attack by G.W.Bush.
only recently has a non profit organisation obtained transcripts from Saddam while under FBI interrogation.
turns out he never had WMDs on him. he was scared of the extremists nearby (iran) and so blatantly spoke out about owning WMDs in order to put up a stronger front and to not look weak and invite aggression to Iraq.
not only that, he was so scared of the fundies in tehran, he was considering going to the UN or even THE USA for support against the nearby extremist state of iran. not only that, he despised the Taliban and confessed he never has and never would deal with them. how USA got the info they were given, maybe Bush asked the pot smoking hobo on the street?
in short. USA killed and lost collectively roughly 100 000 - 200 000 people because G.W. Bush couldnt keep the big red button unpressed. yes, saddam commited atrocities. but lets put it into perspective. Saddam - less then 100 kurd hate killings. Bush - 150 000 deaths, give or take 100 000.

ducky : 1.
silly super conservative righty americans : 0.

2. Israel
-Also i first read about this in the newspaper..
as many of you would know, lefty Ducky was in stern opposition against the Israel attacks of wanton violence to unarmed civilians during the conflict
Amnesty international have branded both israel and palestine with acts of inhumane attacks and ultimately, war crimes
again, amnesty is a non profit organisation.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/ar ... JdpHz3hxSw
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/07/02-7
http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Israel_use ... 22009.html
remember how Israel would move civilians out of "danger zones" and put them into "safe" buildings?
well it turns out, that Israel would fight from those buildings using Palestinian civilians as human shields.

there was also unecessary violence and killings towards unarmed civilians as well as destruction of property. soldier were ordered to move from house to house and throw all furniture onto the streets.
oh and did i mention that Amnesty, one of the forefront organisations of human rights abuse with an impeccable rep, DIDNT find that the islamic rulers used human shields? i know Hamas are terrorists. but really. who are the monsters?
i would like to point out that Israel heavily hindered investigation and tried to stop many of the things becoming public.

Ducky: 1.
silly super nationalistic righty israelis : 0.

let the flaming towards ducky commence, but i warn you... i will eventually be correct :3

P.S. Israel is still expanding "settlements" into westbank.

We belong in Iraq, to secure Deomcracy. If we leave now, All that the soldiers dies for is in vein. Im not in the mood to argue this topic again. We have our veiws. You can say "It's about oil" And i can say "Its about freedom".

No one will ever be convinced otherwise. So ive stopped trying.

i never said USA wasnt there to establish democracy, from what i understand, USA has been all around the world trying to spread democracy.

i merely question why Iraq?

then i question the methods of making Iraq viable for invasion.

ultimately im Bush bashing. he directly resulted in 150 000 deaths. 150 000 deaths that should be unecessary. under your guidance, Iraq becomes a US colony where soldiers go to get shot at.

let the flaming continue :3
i can hold the moral high ground

Ducky you are so sheltered and incorrectly indoctrined by lies. Saddam only killed 100 kurds? He used chemical weapons on and tortured hundreds of thousands and up to millions of his population. I'll link a few articles on the kurds which should take no time at all because even google displays "saddam genocide kurds" as a suggestion as there is that much documentation on it.

http://www.mediamonitors.net/robinmiller10.html
http://www.gendercide.org/case_anfal.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack
http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/ ... 2006-10-18
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4555000.stm
http://www.stinkzone.com/cgi-bin/archives/000184.html
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/4751,opin ... death-toll

The point Ducky, is that no matter what i say, you won't accept it. You are so busy in your bubble, that you don't know the truth. Bush was a great president, and if i was 18, i would have voted for him. Both times.

i see. i screwed up here.
still less casualites then bush and although not on purpose, was still avoidable.
i bring back the question of why Iraq?
ever heard of Sudan? Congo? Zimbabwe?
esp. Sudan with the janjaweed.


and you would have been called an idiot. both times.
actually, the second time, he did look a tonne better then whathisface.

alright.
other then the genocide Saddam commited. what gave Bush the right to rush a war that would result in equal to or greater then casualties sustained under Saddams regime only during the wartime between Iraq and Iran?
what gave him the right to proclaim mission accomplished when his own countrymen died daily? while other countrymen, fighting because their government dragged them into it died daily. mission accomplished your ass.
what gave him the right to bypass international conventions designed so a war cannot be rushed, Iraq was an illegal war in technical respects.
and why Iraq?
Sudan at the time was doing far worse.
and why use favourable statistics? in and out in 6 months? 6 years. 6 years and they dragged in troops from all over NATO to fight in a war that seemed to have very little meaning. name the cost of the war. name the cost of lives of the war.
answer these questions with a proper answer and then i will accept that im in a bubble

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http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr14 ... hGod-2.gif

note the thing circled in red then note the title of the news story.
bush was such a good president.

Ducky let me introduce you to the internet, that "article" having bush say he invaded for god was a paid advertising link which probably linked you to some spam junk.

Saddam leaked incorrect information saying he had WMD's. He did this on purpose as a bluff. He figured the US would have no balls to do anything after 8 years of a philandering Clinton in the White House whose idea of foreign policies was NAFTA the NWO and bombing countries whenever there was too much press regarding his own impeachment. Oh Clinton lied under oath and committed purgory hmm...

Darfur has no effect on us that is the reason we wont go there. The other reason we won't go there is Somalia(Blackhawk Down). The U.S. has pretty much ruled out ever going seriously into Africa after that. The exception would be Liberia as it was ran by primarily expatriot former US slaves.

If you want to count direct deaths then the US still caused less than Saddam, if you want to count diseases hunger displaced etc, then more civilians still died under Saddam.

Take quotes made by the Iraqi public.
Although there is still insecurity people live with less fear in their daily lives and have a renewed sense of hope. Yes you will have the former faction Sunni's which are a minority group who used to lead and be funnelled all the oil money from Saddam. So there are major struggles within from upset Sunni's and Shia's who now have power and want to exact vengeance from being oppressed and economically disadvantaged for the last 40+ years. That is the cause of death along with al queda and extremists, intentional or accidental deaths caused by US soldiers are fairly low and in total probably less than the Kurd genocide if you count all 8-9 years of the war.

If you want to count every death due to people dying of illness starvation etc then go for it, it'll still be significantly less than those deaths under Saddam's baath rule. The US waterboarded people, Iraqi's and terrorists hook up electricity to genitals, mangle them, castrate people, used chemical weapons, behead and torture innocents, commit execution style killing of entire villages, use children as bombers, kidnap and brainwash children, give women no freedom, used food as blackmail/leverage(support me or your entire village will starve)[this is common in many countries the UN gives aid to, as they won't be allowed to distribute it so the rulers use the aid as power and only distribute to their power base further marginalizing their opposition], I could go on all day but it is Independance day here in the United States and I am going to go be proud of my country and enjoy my freedom.

When you repeatedly compare my country to Saddam, terrorists, murderers and try to paint my country as being worse than them I take that a little personally and it makes me sick. You also marginalize the lives of brave Australians who lost their lives alongside brave americans. Perhaps I may burst your bubble one day and show you the differance between an apple and an orange.

I do think Niracas just :epicpwned: Ducky.

i cbs splitting, using colourzzz



oh and i wont be replying for a while. going skiing :3

Israel discussion was heated back then... so quiet now.

ignorance