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Tom · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 3:48 pm

Rebel militia is ~15k, Gaddafi military is somewhere between 10 and 20 (including mercenaries from outside of Libya) plus unknown numbers of militia

Gaddafi has far more Libyan blood on his hands than any UN forces. Does that not strike you as odd given that he is supposed to be Libya's leader?

Furthermore, relocating takes more than just the gas required to drive voer a border.

Consider this: If the nation really wanted Gaddafi, then why doesn't he just allow democratic process? If Libya wanted him then Libya would vote for him.

trevor1601 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:45 pm **Posts:** 939

those facts are false.

democracy isnt that great.

Tom · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 5:20 pm

Sources:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12850975
http://english.aljazeera.net/video/afri ... 85587.html
http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20 ... ed-110406/

Based on my previous discussions with you, the general pattern is that oyu pull a 'fact' out of thin air, I then pull out a counter-fact with a source, then you change the subject.

If democracy wasn't great then people would vote to remove it

trevor1601 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:45 pm **Posts:** 939

my facts are from CNN like i have said before. they aren't pulled out of thin air even tho you think CNN is not news. it is.

Tom · **Posted:** Wed Apr 27, 2011 6:28 pm

Well mine just came from three separate and equally, if not more reliable sources.

GurkinC · **Joined:** Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:29 pm **Posts:** 9

trevor1601 wrote:

those facts are false.

democracy isnt that great.

Hang on.

If you want to make a point, you need some evidence behind it?

And about democracy not being that great... to quote Winston Churchill, "Democracy is the worst political system, apart from all the other ones."

VaultDweller · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2011 9:47 am

And its not the sistem that is wrong - its how its used. Democracy would be great if all of its theoretical principles are actually put in practice. problem is, every1 just uses it to their own gain. And this happens with every political sistem, but at least democracy's principles are good.

w1lll · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2011 12:27 pm

VaultDweller wrote:

And its not the sistem that is wrong - its how its used. Democracy would be great if all of its theoretical principles are actually put in practice. problem is, every1 just uses it to their own gain. And this happens with every political sistem, but at least democracy's principles are good.

You could say exactly the same about Communism. In theory, it works, but in practice, it does not (due to the nature of human nature). The only real difference in terms of practicality is that democracy functions relatively well, whereas other political systems do not.

joash · **Posted:** Sat May 07, 2011 3:16 pm

w1lll wrote:

VaultDweller wrote:

And its not the sistem that is wrong - its how its used. Democracy would be great if all of its theoretical principles are actually put in practice. problem is, every1 just uses it to their own gain. And this happens with every political sistem, but at least democracy's principles are good.

You could say exactly the same about Communism. In theory, it works, but in practice, it does not (due to the nature of human nature). The only real difference in terms of practicality is that democracy functions relatively well, whereas other political systems do not.

I agree. Especially with the communism statement.

mfreak · **Posted:** Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:25 am

Tom wrote:

Rebel militia is ~15k, Gaddafi military is somewhere between 10 and 20 (including mercenaries from outside of Libya) plus unknown numbers of militia

Gaddafi has far more Libyan blood on his hands than any UN forces. Does that not strike you as odd given that he is supposed to be Libya's leader?

Furthermore, relocating takes more than just the gas required to drive voer a border.

Consider this: If the nation really wanted Gaddafi, then why doesn't he just allow democratic process? If Libya wanted him then Libya would vote for him.

Democracy isn't that great. You dont need a concrete source of info, to prove that point. Democracy like any other, is just a way a government is run, but today we live in a plutocracy. How can a system that requires manipulation of public opinion so much be the best way to run a government?

That said, that's the best we have today on our hands. Id much rather live in a democracy than in countries like China where I might be run over by a tank for expressing my views. Id much rather be criticized than be slaughtered.

I do agree that Gadaffi is a cruel leader and all, but I really do not endorse wars that say - "We are here to liberate the people of Libya". Its a foreign policy initiative. It is to overthrow a guy that does not support NATO forces. It is to project power in that region, like the US and UK have always done. There are plenty of countries in Africa where the condition of human rights might be much worse (For example a decade or so back in Rwanda), but the NATO forces conveniently choose to avoid meddling in those areas. Yet they came in full support of Kuwait, an oil rich nation when Iraq attacked and followed it up with an invasion of Iraq.

All these are illegal wars, aimed at making the corporates richer. They DO NOT have a humanitarian motive.

BTW I have used NATO forces so I dont point out single countries like US, UK etc. Just whoever is taking part in the war effort. Though maybe the US would be the single biggest contributor, dunno though.

Libya...