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Seth · **Posted:** Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:38 pm

If you live in the USA, this is a subject you should be paying close attention to.

The hearings on this matter are ongoing, and can be found easily by using your search engine to find the news stories all over the net. Search keywords "Fast And Furious Mexico"

Like to hear thoughts on this!

GerberBaby1 · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:48 pm **Posts:** 1079

It's dosapointing but you cannot expect every plan to work. They planned on giving guns to known Mexican gun traffickers who would, in turn, lead them to the big fish, the drug cartels and other buyers. The plan makes sense however the US government underestimated them and we were unable to sccessfully track everyone.

Crap happens, mistakes are made. The US government has to make alot of decisions and American citizens should not criticize the US government for a mistake.

Seth · **Posted:** Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:40 pm

Quote:

American citizens should not criticize the US government for a mistake

Wow. Just...wow.

GerberBaby1 · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:48 pm **Posts:** 1079

It's true, we shouldn't.
1) Mistakes will happen it's unavoidable. When you make that many decisions you are bound to make at least one wrong one.
2) There will always be decisions made by other people that you will disagree with
3) You elected them it's just as much the voters fault as the politician.
4) It is easy to look at mistakes made by other people with hindsight. Like I said the general concept was a good one. Give guns to small traffickers and trace them back to the big fish. If you would blame anyone, blame the trackers, not that you should blame them.

littleconqueror · **Posted:** Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:56 pm

you also have to consider the fact that being in the US government has a lot of pressure to it because of our econamy, people constantly criticizing them and the big jobs they have at hand

Seth · **Posted:** Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:34 pm

Heh. The debt issue is the MOTHER of all government screwups.

Let me give you a basic rundown of how we got here (most recently). Bush signs NAFTA & Free trade agreements, allowing corporations to ship their business overseas and not suffer penalties. These companies said HELL YEAH!, and did just that. Look around. How many places in your town have closed their doors in the last few years? The largest employer in my area, and one of the last big employers in my area, closed their doors a year ago next month.

So, while doing this, we are lied into a war (another mistake of the govt, but who is counting, right? I mean, we NEVER found any weapons of mass destruction, and there is NO evidence that he had ANYTHING to do with 9/11, and again, the fact that they were knowingly lying is well documented) on two fronts that costs TRILLIONS of dollars. Its hard to get ones head around how much money that really is... Take a look for yourself >>> http://www.usdebtclock.org/

It is INSANE!

So, in summary, we have jobs being shipped to Asia and other places where labor is insanely cheap, which makes our GDP insanely low. Then, we have great big expensive wars being fought that we obviously can no longer pay for. Now the debt is so huge that we are never going to be able to pay it back (with interest mind you). It is simply impossible. Our "creditors" know this, and the dollar is already losing value.

Do you know what happens if the govt defaults? I mean, this is a great big screw up. Are you going to be so forgiving when no one is willing to lend money to the USA any longer, and the dollar loses all of it's value? Do you seriously think that we should in no way question how we got here? That we should not hold accountable those that made the decisions that have ruined the economy of our great nation? How is that logical?

I really hate to sound all doom and gloom, but im not sure many people understand the gravity of the situation.

Did you know that YOUR debt for each one of you as citezen of the USA is currently around $400,000 simply because that is how much money the govt has spent on your behalf? How long will it take you to pay that down right now? Do you know who we owe this money to as a people? You really should find these things out. I think you will be quite amazed.

Another question. Do any of you know what a lobbyist is, and what their role in Washington is, and when and how they (corporations) came to be allowed to make use of this role?

You guys have the unlimited resources of the worlds knowledge at your fingertips. Use it

bork9128 · **Posted:** Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:12 pm

GerberBaby1 wrote:

American citizens should not criticize the US government for a mistake.

there is a reason we have a right to criticize the government
call it tough love the more we point out their stupid mistakes the less likely they make the same mistake again

i mean if videos like this were made for a stupid mistake that i did i would want to make that mistake again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvLU7ob7mwA

as for the operation itself it was a good idea with a flawed plan that was badly executed

with adequate testing for equipment and small scale operation testing before committing wholeheartedly this could have been very successful

Zudamar · **Posted:** Sat Jul 30, 2011 11:21 pm

GerberBaby1 · **Joined:** Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:48 pm **Posts:** 1079

Ok, first off seth, lies are part of politics. I have huge issues with the way our government is set up however I do not wish to delve into them however the fact remains we elected these people in office. We have to stand behind them.

Did Bush make some big mistakes, yes. However Bush can only declare war, nothing else. He gets his budget from the congress. This means that you would have to blame almost every member of congress. How did they get into office, by votes. So then in turn you would have to blame every voter who voted for bush and/or the politicians that voted for these bills and the budget.

Should we have gone into Iraq? yes. Should we have lied about our reasons? No. But I don't want to go off topic and get a warning from you

The point is that the plan was a good plan however it was executed poorly by the people who did it. With a little bit more preparation it would have probably gone of better. As for the publicity this has gotten I find it funny that this has gotten much more attention then the numerous problems Mexico has been having lately.

Seth · **Posted:** Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:25 am

I made a mistake making this thread I think. I really didnt want to know.

Hindsight is 20/20

I fear our constitutional republic is doomed.

Operation "Fast And Furious"