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airhead · **Joined:** Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:04 am **Posts:** 3

I agree that nukes should not be used. Someone took the time to prepare an attack then they have to worry about that. Not very fair

snakey · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:03 am

psg188 wrote:

Quote:

maybe u cant ion the missile but u can still turn ur squads back ;p

If that's the case, why do we have ion cannon at all? If it's easy to just dodge the nuke why have a feature designed to counter them?

If we keep this bug, any time a nuke goes at a colony I'm attacking suddenly I have to turn around, because who knows how long a shield is charged. That's ridiculous.

its aint no bug.. other wise Andrew wouldnt bother him self to make a voting topic.. he would just fix it ;p stop calling its a bug.. its how BD founders made the system.

this tactics could be one of the best and most effective u can do with major alliances and powers.. no wonder single BOPE guy managed to chase 222 squads of waw solo lol

i also remember a teammate lost 40 squads cuz of this thing u call bug :S dont change things cuz it dosent serve ur goals..

mfreak · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:08 am

Dude Snake, what are you talkin about? That instance when WAW's squads got damaged is long over. KoH also disbanded. This topic is to prevent future instances like these and it isnt specific to WAW. Stop bringing War and diplomatic discussions here. Neither us, nor the admins have started talking about it because "WAW" got affected by it. It simply was an example of how nukes functioned, and how it is wrong game design.

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The only special case is when the target is a hostile colony and you can't ion the nuke. Perhaps we should add a case where I can ion nukes incoming to colonies conquered by my alliance, therefore I'd be able to take it out as if it was my outpost.

Anything else is purely bad game design.

Hope everyone understands this and vote after understanding what the ISSUE really is, than vote option 2 because they have an issue with WAW

snakey · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:12 am

sorry about that mfreak lol

but i still vote for option 2... only because i or anyone can take advantage of it and maybe turn the war upside down. im sorry again

Andrew · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:28 am

To clarify a few things about how nukes CURRENTLY work as there is some misunderstandings here:

-Nukes do not affect squads that are attacking or defending to the target the same tick as a nuke hits.
-Nukes kill 10% of only the units on a target and hurt all others to 1hp
-Nukes damage all units to 1hp that left the target or returned from the target the tick before the nuke but does not kill any of them directly.(Caught in the outer blast but not the direct hit)
-Nukes do not affect squads that are sitting delayed on a shield when attacking a colony.

Option 1 keeps all current nuke mechanics intact and changes it so that nukes cannot affect squads that just attacked a colony and are returning from it the tick before a nuke hits.

Option 2 would essentially bring nukes back to the former mechanics they had in the old client. Nuke strikes are processed before units move(This is how they affect escaping squads) so you'd only have to delay attacking/defending squads to 1 tick behind a nuke to avoid getting caught. Nukes will hurt any units on the target, that arrive at the same tick as a nuke regardless of status and any units that left the target the tick before the nuke hits regardless of status. Nukes would affects units stuck on a shield attacking a colony as well if option 2 is implemented(Though this wasn't something brought up in our debate, if option 2 wins out we may look at reducing the effect if units are stuck on a shield). The only difference I believe offhand from the old client's nukes and option 2 is that instead of units inside a colony only taking 50% hp loss from the nuke they go down to 1hp.

Also a note that the current system isn't bugged or flawed in any way, simply that due to several players complaining about the current system it sparked this debate into changing the current system to improve the nuke system to satisfy what the community wants.

Hope that helps to clarify some of the misunderstandings in the thread and also clarify the changes to the system depending on which option gets implemented. Keep in mind as well you can change your vote at anytime before the poll closes this weekend.

-Andrew

PS: Glad to see some healthy discussion here, I'm surprised that the community is quite evenly decided between the 2 available options(54%/41% in favour of option 1 presently)

. If we end up with a fairly even vote split(Less than 60% for one of the two options) by the end of the week I think it'll be best to go back to the drawing board to compromise on the 2 systems and present new options.

austinc · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:35 am

totally option 1

Roman · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:47 am

I read every single post on all 6 pages of the thread. I'm pretty sure everything that is going to be said further has already been said halfway through page 5 and prior, everything else is just going to be circular reasoning.

With that, I have taken both sides into much consideration and have decided to vote for option 1.

I've fell victim to 3rd party nukes before (costing me my army of 42 full squads) and I don't think it right to be unable to avoid taking damage from these nukes after an attack.

psg188 · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:15 pm

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Option 1 keeps all current nuke mechanics intact and changes it so that nukes cannot affect squads that just attacked a colony and are returning from it the tick before a nuke hits.

Which is exactly what we need.

Quote:

Option 2 would essentially bring nukes back to the former mechanics they had in the old client. Nuke strikes are processed before units move(This is how they affect escaping squads) so you'd only have to delay attacking/defending squads to 1 tick behind a nuke to avoid getting caught. Nukes will hurt any units on the target, that arrive at the same tick as a nuke regardless of status and any units that left the target the tick before the nuke hits regardless of status. Nukes would affects units stuck on a shield attacking a colony as well if option 2 is implemented(Though this wasn't something brought up in our debate, if option 2 wins out we may look at reducing the effect if units are stuck on a shield). The only difference I believe offhand from the old client's nukes and option 2 is that instead of units inside a colony only taking 50% hp loss from the nuke they go down to 1hp.

WHAT?! This is even worse than I thought. Anyone who votes for this option is doing so out of spite for WAW, they don't know what they are voting for, or they have not sat and actually thought about what bad game design this is.

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Also a note that the current system isn't bugged or flawed in any way

Oh yes... yes it is.

Andrew · **Posted:** Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:19 pm

psg188 wrote:

Quote:

Also a note that the current system isn't bugged or flawed in any way

Oh yes... yes it is.

It was how the system was designed. Obviously we're taking it into consideration to improve the system based on arguments made to change it. Things can always be improved and balancing/improving is a constant in any online persistent game. Doesn't make past systems/ideas flawed.

There is no flaw here, just a difference of opinion on what is and is not "fair" in the way nukes are handled currently.

-Andrew

lowrider001 · **Joined:** Mon May 30, 2011 5:01 pm **Posts:** 1

Andrew wrote:

No worries, Michael and I had quite a heated debate on this tonight and couldn't come to a consensus. Both options will work but neither of us could concede to each other's opinion on which was better.

I won't get into our full 13 page discussion and ~23 minute voice conversation but the rough arguments were:

Option 1 - Parked & Escaping squads only affected by nuke blast.

-Less hassle for the attacking side, coordination is easier for players following up nukes with units.
-Players may get frustrated losing units if they attacked with the nuke on the same ETA and changing it(Option 2) may be too big a "shock".
-In the situation of an attacking squad returning from a colony attack the tick before a nuke hits they shouldn't be affected because you cannot ion that nuke. Players should have more than just the option to turn back their units, this is a flaw in game design.

Option 2 - Parked & All squads within 1 tick distance affected by nuke blast.

-There shouldn't be exceptions for any squads, if a nuke hits and your units are 1 tick away at the time of the strike then they get affected, regardless of status.
-If units leave a target and then return mid-air to it they shouldn't be able to avoid damage as it makes nukes too easy to avoid and still defend the target. Option 1 will make that possible.
-In the situation of a nuke hitting a colony 1 tick after squads finish an attack and are returning they should be affected. Yes the nuke(s) cannot be ioned however risky tactic requires a colony to be sacrificed(Let conquered) to work and the origin of the units to be attacked/secured to kill any units. Avoiding the nuke by returning the attack is always an option and this is a clever use of game mechanics.

We both agreed both options will work just fine and it's just a matter of preference; Michael suggested we open it up to the community for feedback and I agreed we needed community input to make a proper decision.

-Andrew

srry for quoteing the whole thing but in real life if a nuke hits some were and lets say the country that sent the nuke has some military over there then oh well it dosent matter if there friendly they will still get hit... so in other words the friendly were defending... so in stead of takeing the easy way out for the less experianced gamers lets have this tactful play for those who can use it.... and trust me im not even good enough 2 get a nuke so i cant even do it and i want it to be like this for it 2 be realistic...

Community Feedback Needed: Nukes