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IQ · **Posted:** Sat May 15, 2010 10:47 am

I shall now explain the arguments for "The problem of Evil"

Problem Of Evil

The Cruel World Argument

Nature is to blame for what it has committed against humans. The earthquakes, the hurricanes, the floods and all the other disaster that you have heard. These are what nature has done. Not only does nature take away our lives but also the meaning in life too. When nature destroys your house, you have nowhere to stay. When nature destroys your crops, you have nothing to eat. Now, what is the meaning of life now?

But, humans commit murder, torture and war. It is not nature’s fault. Although in the first instance, it seems worse when it is human’s sin, it is nothing compared to the millions of people that have been killed by disease, floods and earthquakes. There are more people that have died because of nature rather than human’s sin. When humans declare war, commit murders or torture innocent people, there is usually a motive. When they torture someone they want information. When they declare war they might want justice, money or revenge. On the other hand, nature does not have a motive. Even if you have lots of money, lots of power you will still suffer as much as the poor. Nature just kills blindly.

You cannot blame the creator of the earth God. He is on the good side. He is the reason why we are still alive today. The all-good all-powerful God is not the cause of these tragedies. You have to look elsewhere. God didn’t even think about these tragedies let alone carry them out. It is the cruel nature.

The Devils Fault Argument
The Devil has and is still an iconic figure for the cause of Evil. This idea has already existed thousand of years ago. Zoroaster was one of the first people to teach about these theories. He was a religious teacher that lived in Persia 500 years before Jesus was born. He believed that the devil was called Ahriman.

Nature is not to blame. God is not to be blamed. But rather the Devil! You have seen unearned suffering. The Devil has no mercy for any of its victims. It has no motive at all. Plain murder. The Devil is the leader of the Evil side. People believe there are two forces involved in this. Good and Evil. God is the leader of the Good and The Devil is the leader of the Evil. It is believed that the Good forces and the Evil forces fight against each other. This is known as Dualism.

In this clash, if ever the Devil has some form of victory, he is eligible to do whatever he likes, for instance droughts, volcano eruptions and mass viruses.

Fortunately God wins most of the time. That is why there are more good things happening in the world than bad. That is why bad things only happen occasionally.

The “Who made the Devil” Argument

Many people have come across the “Who made the devil argument?”. It is only logical to assume the Devil was created by God. This is because he is the “Creator of the world”. An extract from the bible says “In the beginning there was nothing” This implies that God has created the Devil. If so, is God also to be blamed for what has happened to us? Is he actually the one getting us into trouble and all kinds f tragedies?

There is a possibility that it could have been one of those “Story of Salvation”. God made angels to tell us the good will of the Lord. But since God gave “free will” many Angles disobeyed and became evil. So does this suggest God made the Devil? Well, maybe not. It is possible that maybe the Devil existed at the same time as God. The Devil could have been hidden away in a part of the universe. When God created the Earth, he could have wreaked havoc among those living on Earth. So if the Devil existed at the same time as God, they would be equally powerful. Think about this analogy. There are two dogs. Both of them are of the same breed. One of the dogs is used to rescue people from the mountainous areas. The other dog is killing people because he enjoys it. But both of them are the same breed which means they have the same physique but just different thinking.

This brings us back to the hypothesis that no one made the Devil. The Devil just co-existed with God. It is just that God made the first move and the Devil the second. Rather than one God it looks like two Gods. One good and One bad.

The “Free Will” Argument

Free will is being able to do whatever you like. Animals do not have free will, so when they do something wrong they cannot be blamed. However God gave humans free will. We will be responsible for what we do as we know what we are doing.

If God did not give us free will we would be like robots. We would be programmed to do our tasks without any reason. That programmed goodness is actually just unreal. We cannot choose to be good or evil as we are just programmed. If we are good with free will, then it means we know what is right and what we choose we also know that evil is there to tempt us.

However, many people in this modern society use their free will to do the wrong. They vow to do against God and all the humanity stood for. They take away people’s lives and removes order on Earth. They kill for themselves and they rob or steal for themselves. They act in the name of evil, only thinking of themselves rather than the meaning of life of those other people. That is the problem of evil.

mrducky · **Posted:** Sun May 16, 2010 1:16 am

yay! ducky is here to crash a religious thread <3

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Nature just kills blindly.

exactly, evidence for a cold indifferent universe that doesnt really care or think about the value of a human being over the value of a rock.

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You cannot blame the creator of the earth God. He is on the good side.

ill assume because you used the term "God" that you are talking of the judeo-christian god

Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

"good" is pretty subjective, hitler thought he was on the good side, getting rid of all those jews. is god on the good side then? or are you simply superimposing your wishes onto "god" so that your actions and thoughts can somehow be backed by what is "good" that is determined by what you think god determines.
old testament is anything but good.

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Fortunately God wins most of the time.

omnipotence fail. (which is actually addressed by epicurus)

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That is why there are more good things happening in the world than bad. That is why bad things only happen occasionally.

go to africa and say that, just because you have access to shelter, medicine and food and thus are sheltered from the atrocities of the world doesnt mean that there is more good then bad.
the "four horsemen" have been hanging around earth for thousands of years now. occasionally doesnt really do the "Bad things" justice

http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/afric ... rica.rape/
57 rapes PER DAY
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/rel ... 3/pr33/en/
3000 children die from malaria daily
http://hello.news352.lu/index.php?p=edito&id=29744
almost 22 000 die per day because of drought and its related effects. (21 917 per day if you get 8 000 000/365)

dont worry, its just "occasionally"

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So if the Devil existed at the same time as God, they would be equally powerful.

lol, i was right, you are talking in terms of the judeo-christian god.

i challenge this, it is often thought, the fallen angel Lucifer (bearer of light) is the devil, no where in the bible does it say god has an equal in terms of power. heck, the story of job shows that the devil is like gods dog on a leash, and he can only do as much damage as god wills him to.
if anything, satan-face is a scape goat.

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This brings us back to the hypothesis that no one made the Devil.

1. thats not a hypothesis.
2. it is said in your bible that god is the alpha and the omega, the devil had to have come after god~~

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The Devil just co-existed with God. It is just that God made the first move and the Devil the second.

the above statement is ambiguous when you use eternity as a timeline.

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Rather than one God it looks like two Gods. One good and One bad.

or, there are no gods. just a cold, indifferent, harsh universe that doesnt care if a murderer dies or an innocent child dies. then again, satan as a god?
as the cute woodland creatures of southpark put it:
"HAIL SATAN!"

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Free will is being able to do whatever you like.

i would like to be god... dayyum. the above statement crashed and burned.

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Animals do not have free will, so when they do something wrong they cannot be blamed.

evidence? btw, humans are animals

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We will be responsible for what we do as we know what we are doing.

cough genesis thinks otherwise cough.
eating the fruit of knowledge of good and evil before knowing what good and evil is means that how could adam/eve be held responsible? owned.

your next bit is a bit iffy, i would need to know what your view of heaven is like, here are 5 short questions (answers vary extremely wildly from denomination to denomination).
1. do you have freewill in heaven?
2. can you sin?
3. can you be punished for sin?
4. can you be booted out of heaven because of sinning?
5. is heaven perfect?
that is all~~

Quote:

However, many people in this modern society use their free will to do the wrong.

again with these subjective terms, i bring forth the always present extreme example. hitler. he was "doing right" in his eyes when he was exterminating the jews.
how about David, being commanded by god to clean out them canaanites. he was 'doing right' in his eyes (and god) when he was exterminating various lesser races (because jews are god's chosen race)
this passage is a little bloody, i give it a MA15+ rating, dont read it unless you are ready for baby smashing, woman raping, god sanctioned violence.

-Ducky out.

IQ · **Posted:** Sun May 16, 2010 4:08 am

Quote:

Lets trash some religious....

Well mate im not religious myself. This is my brothers work....

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Peudo God

Explain further please!

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exactly, evidence for a cold indifferent universe that doesnt really care or think about the value of a human being over the value of a rock.

Precisely. But further on I do try and explain both sides.

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ill assume because you used the term "God" that you are talking of the judeo-christian god

Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

"good" is pretty subjective, hitler thought he was on the good side, getting rid of all those jews. is god on the good side then? or are you simply superimposing your wishes onto "god" so that your actions and thoughts can somehow be backed by what is "good" that is determined by what you think god determines.
old testament is anything but good.

As I said this "God" is only on the weaker side of the argument....

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More bad than good

NO! what about Bill Gates...He tried to wipe out Malaria

What about Romero he made justice for El Salvador

What about Sister THresha

ALL THESE PEOPLES!!!!

mrducky · **Posted:** Mon May 17, 2010 5:06 am

IQ wrote:

Quote:

Lets trash some religious....

Well mate im not religious myself. This is my brothers work....
check what i wrote, its "crash a religious thread" try to copy paste my words rather then misrepresent. btw, green is my colour

>--|- D : <

Quote:

Peudo God

Explain further please!

maybe you arent quoting me here? again i cant see where i typed that?
pseudo god? judeo-christian god?

first part i didnt write. the christian god is called the judeo-christian god because its origins stem from the religion judaism, aka. the jews. to simply have the christian god and ignore the old testament would be like mormonism or something.

Quote:

exactly, evidence for a cold indifferent universe that doesnt really care or think about the value of a human being over the value of a rock.

Precisely. But further on I do try and explain both sides.

Quote:

ill assume because you used the term "God" that you are talking of the judeo-christian god

Isaiah 45:7 (King James Version)
7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

"good" is pretty subjective, hitler thought he was on the good side, getting rid of all those jews. is god on the good side then? or are you simply superimposing your wishes onto "god" so that your actions and thoughts can somehow be backed by what is "good" that is determined by what you think god determines.
old testament is anything but good.

As I said this "God" is only on the weaker side of the argument....

Quote:

More bad than good

NO! what about Bill Gates...He tried to wipe out Malaria

What about Romero he made justice for El Salvador

What about Sister THresha

ALL THESE PEOPLES!!!!
dont even put a dent into the thousands of rapes, murders and tortures commited by the gloriously kind human race.
look to war and watch how brutally people can cut away at each other, the armies of old would clash and because its thousands of people killing thousands of people, fighting would go for hours as the numbers just mash against each other until one side loses. for efficiency people would have their hamstrings cut and killed later when their side is defeated, and if their side is victorious, they are unable to work or fight for the rest of their life. such is war. only exhibited by humans and ants.
people, like myself, would buy a console game rather then save 5 lives in africa. sure, i sponsored a child, but that is nothing to pay for my excesses of living. simply put, if you have a computer worth more then $50, you chose to have a computer over saving a life in africa. the world sucks. humans seriously dont help much.

would like to point out you missed a lot of my points

sabot00 · **Joined:** Wed May 12, 2010 4:05 pm **Posts:** 6

IQ wrote:

I shall now explain the arguments for "The problem of Evil"

Free will is being able to do whatever you like.

So if I want to murder, commit genocide, kill Jews, I can?
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Animals do not have free will, so when they do something wrong they cannot be blamed.

Who said this? You give a monkey 2 bowls, 1 with bread, 1 with fecal matter, he's going to choose the bread, and since you didn't FORCE him to, it's FREE WILL!
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However God gave humans free will.

God can go to hell, free will is the reason why there are murderers, etc
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We will be responsible for what we do as we know what we are doing.

So if someone points a gun at your head and tells you to rape someone you are responsible right? Since you knew what you were doing.
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If God did not give us free will we would be like robots.

Robot have free will they can choose where to go, what to do if they have sufficiently advanced AI
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That is the problem of evil.

I don't think its a problem, I see it as an opportunity.

twinks · **Joined:** Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:04 pm **Posts:** 36

Ducky already mentioned him, but I thought I'd post one of Epicurus' more famous postulations.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?

Either God wants to stop evil, and cannot; Or he can, but does not want to; Or he cannot and does not want to. If he wants to, but cannot, he is impotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is wicked. But, if God both can and wants to abolish evil, then how come evil is in the world?

One or two more?

If the gods listened to the prayers of men, all humankind would quickly perish since they constantly pray for many evils to befall one

Voltaire?

If God has made us in his image, we have returned him the favor.

Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities.

Son · **Joined:** Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:52 am **Posts:** 659

Just some quick points in regards to the problem of evil ...

- If God is Benevolent (all loving) then why does he allow his children to be in pain (evil and suffering) God would of wanted good for his children not bad

- If God is Omnipotent (all powerful) then why does he not stop evil and suffering to occur

- If God is Omniscient (all knowing) then why did he allow evil and suffering to occur if God foresaw it comming

Continue Discussing - Very Good Discussion

Son

rederoin · **Posted:** Mon May 24, 2010 4:56 pm

God does not exist

/thread

jake4426 · **Posted:** Mon May 24, 2010 8:36 pm

Just here to say about satan, everyone says he is a bad guy, but what if we are wrong? just because in christian belief he was cast down by God doesn't mean he is bad. He could be a good all around guy. Maybe he likes ot party in hell. Maybe Hell is better than Heaven

twinks · **Joined:** Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:04 pm **Posts:** 36

Son wrote:

Just some quick points in regards to the problem of evil ...

- If God is Benevolent (all loving) then why does he allow his children to be in pain (evil and suffering) God would of wanted good for his children not bad

- If God is Omnipotent (all powerful) then why does he not stop evil and suffering to occur

- If God is Omniscient (all knowing) then why did he allow evil and suffering to occur if God foresaw it comming

Continue Discussing - Very Good Discussion

Son

Wow you completely skipped over my detailed post I suppose, even tho it was just one below yours T.T

The Problem of Evil. What do you agree on?