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mfreak
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Post subject: Re: Community Feedback Needed: Nukes Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:59 pm |
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:21 am Posts: 2757 Location: Chicago, Illinois Gender: male
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So, which option do you choose? And thanks for reading it and giving your opinion even though you are new BTW I dont know why people want things to be realistic. I mean its as realistic as it can get what we have now. Infact you wont be having ion cannon, shields, gates etc if things were made too realistic
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psg188
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Post subject: Re: Community Feedback Needed: Nukes Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:08 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 7:18 pm Posts: 1410 Location: Georgia Tech Gender: male
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Andrew wrote: psg188 wrote: Quote: Also a note that the current system isn't bugged or flawed in any way Oh yes... yes it is. It was how the system was designed. Obviously we're taking it into consideration to improve the system based on arguments made to change it. Things can always be improved and balancing/improving is a constant in any online persistent game. Doesn't make past systems/ideas flawed.
There is no flaw here, just a difference of opinion on what is and is not "fair" in the way nukes are handled currently.
-AndrewMichael never sat down and said "I think that a nuke hitting a colony that was conquered the tick before should hurt the army that conquered the colony, despite them being unable to ion it"... That did NOT happen. This is unintentional, and therefore a flaw/bug. This is not how the system was designed. It was a byproduct of outposts and colonies being treated the same for a lot of things, and in this case a rare situation was handled the same for outposts and colonies despite extenuating circumstances (being unable to ion the nuke) making it bad game design.
_________________ Kane - GLA - LoM - UBL - TdCt - Simp -------------- Beware the wrath of Ovaltine Jenkins, for he shall show no mercy.
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Ponk
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Post subject: Re: Community Feedback Needed: Nukes Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:59 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 3:56 pm Posts: 2109 Location: ¯\(0_o)/¯ Gender: male
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Kenny wrote: Hey there, I would just like to review this entire topic and express my own opinion as I feel that we're making an important decision here. That decision is whether we go down the route of making a simpler game, or go down the route of either staying at or increasing the strategical element of this game. The people supporting option 1 want a simpler game, because it works out in their favor. They're campaigning about "If I can't ion it, then it shouldn't affect me" while simply waiting 1 more tick or watching more carefully would easily solve their problem. It becomes to the point that alliances use it as a defensive mechanism does it REALLY become an annoyance. And is this annoyance fair or unfair? Is it unfair for an alliance to use the defensive capability of a nuke? If you support option 1, you support the notion of taking away a defensive capability of a nuke. This game should not become black and white, it should increase the openness of using things. Whoever said old client used to have 2 ticks radius on nukes is a complete moron and tool. Never did the old client have a feature like that on nukes. The only overpowered feature old client ever had was that nukes DESTROYED outposts, and it was promptly taken away. So I implore whoever likes to say lies in order to make their point seem more agreeable to go dunk their head in acid. I am surprised that not one person has said anything about this before I have. Anyways, now that my random rant is over, let me show you an example of other games that were once strategical tyrants that now get laughed at over the simplicity of their game. Civ 4 to Civ 5. Enough said. Civ 5 took away most of the "annoyances" of Civ 4 because people complained. It's now a trash game. I implore you to go look at the facts a bit of what was changed, but it was mostly about the same kind of stuff that BD is facing decisions about today. "Slight annoyances" for most people translates to good strategy and tactics for others. Should I not use a nuke in a way that it would defend me? Should I not get an ally to help defend me by barraging my outposts under attack by nukes? Let's face it, take away the defensive capability of nukes and it becomes how fast you can conquer the colonies when it comes to a war. When above all.. the simple fix is simply delaying or waiting a tick. Or just watching more carefully. And let's be 100% honest. Nukes don't have a mind. They can't pick and choose what destruction happens. If you're stuck in a radius of a nuke, you're screwed buddy. At least in Battle Dawn it's only 10% kill rate, and for squads within the radius, damages them to 1. That's really not bad and acceptable. It forces you to have to pay attention to nuke silos more and take them out. They also gain more use and it becomes less about going into enemy territory and conquering the colonies as fast as possible and becomes more about taking out their strategical positions and abusing them. So simpler game or more strategical values. I for one, love me some strategical values. And hey, if you don't like option 2 that's fine, but be sensible and realize that option 1 just takes away too much. I suggest if you're on that part, just ask for a compromise. No one's gonna kill you. Compromises are how things are done in democracy.
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Redruth
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Post subject: Re: Community Feedback Needed: Nukes Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:42 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:15 am Posts: 196 Gender: male
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i like neither because then a tick before a nuke hits people can launh all their squads and then return them just with lower Hp but no actual losses, if a nukes in the area you take the consequences and thats part of the game in my opinion
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Anarchist69x
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Post subject: Re: Community Feedback Needed: Nukes Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:01 pm |
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:30 pm Posts: 371
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mfreak wrote: So, which option do you choose? And thanks for reading it and giving your opinion even though you are new BTW I dont know why people want things to be realistic. I mean its as realistic as it can get what we have now. Infact you wont be having ion cannon, shields, gates etc if things were made too realistic I want a shield over my house for when the turkeys starting falling in 2012 my colony will be safe!
Both arguments for and against are pretty solid although I like the idea of no simply because it adds more strategy involving nukes which the current system sort of lacks. But like Kane said if you can't ion nukes then they should not damage your squads. Kind of in the middle now :/
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psg188
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Post subject: Re: Community Feedback Needed: Nukes Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:06 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 7:18 pm Posts: 1410 Location: Georgia Tech Gender: male
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@ Kenny/Ponk
I am all for increasing strategic depth, but there is nothing strategic about having to turn around from any attack on a colony when I see a nuke going at that colony. That isn't strategy, it's annoying.
Strategy is about give and take. I can do something so the enemy responds in some way. Ions are a response to nukes. A nuke affecting me when I can't use the counter is wrong. Simple as that. If we want to increase the array of tactics available to us, we should make sure there is always a way to respond intelligently, and being told to "simply turn whenever you see a nuke going at a colony you are attacking" is dumb, and bad game design.
I see two possibilities here:
A: Option 1 exactly as it is written. B: Keep things how they are currently, but allow players to ion nukes going to colonies they have conquered.
Option 2 is bad game design plain and simple.
_________________ Kane - GLA - LoM - UBL - TdCt - Simp -------------- Beware the wrath of Ovaltine Jenkins, for he shall show no mercy.
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Ponk
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Post subject: Re: Community Feedback Needed: Nukes Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:33 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 3:56 pm Posts: 2109 Location: ¯\(0_o)/¯ Gender: male
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Kenny wrote: Something's are strategical because they're not as easily preventable Kane, you know this. That what can usually determine a win from a loss. Eventually you have to put your opponent into a place to where whatever decision they make still forces a loss. That's how you win strategically. This nuke's defensive capabilities can do that if played correctly, and you shouldn't allow that to be taken away if you call yourself a strategist. And Kane, It's Kenny talking, not me ;P
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psg188
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Post subject: Re: Community Feedback Needed: Nukes Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:54 pm |
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Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 7:18 pm Posts: 1410 Location: Georgia Tech Gender: male
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It's difficult to gather all your members online to coordinate an attack on a colony... and to have to do it twice for NO gains to retreat simply because a nuke was launched at the colony you were attacking is downright dumb.
I already have to control the entire map to prevent relocation, now I have to capture every single OP as well from every alliance nearby to prevent a stray nuke from forcing me to turn 200+ squads?
In what sense of balance does an investment of 500 metal, 200~ oil, and 25e allow you to force the enemy team to coordinate 8+ players to return 200+ squads from a colony simply because you launched a nuke at it?
Why not remove the ion altogether? You have no sense of balance.
Just because something exists that allows a weak player to beat a strong player, does not mean it is strategic and balanced... in fact, generally speaking a strong player should beat a weak player assuming all other factors are the same. The cost of firing a nuke at a colony is far too low to justify putting such a high cost on the attacker.
There is a reason your argument consists entirely of "It's strategical!" rather than actually analyzing the impact it has on the game.
_________________ Kane - GLA - LoM - UBL - TdCt - Simp -------------- Beware the wrath of Ovaltine Jenkins, for he shall show no mercy.
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Pagan
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Post subject: Re: Community Feedback Needed: Nukes Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:25 pm |
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Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:52 pm Posts: 67
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voted for option 1... inability to counter measure i.e ion the incoming nuke should be considered as the decisive factor. the game advertises strategy not lottery.
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skwrel
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Post subject: Re: Community Feedback Needed: Nukes Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:44 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:31 am Posts: 57 Location: Where ever you don't want me to be.... Gender: male
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Although i can agree with option 1 seeing how it really doesn't change anything except to fix the bug, but i would personally love to bring option 2 back in. Thats how the old client was and made nukes deadlier than ever. Nukes today are just plain and simple to easy to dodge. If i remember correctly in the old client you could ion anything that was flying in the air. In this case maybe raise the ion up just a bit, 250-300. If one alliance can ion 30 times into an large attacking squads then they can afford to spend the extra Energy. The ability to do that is outragous. I understand how this could be exploited by subs, allies, and multies, but bring the game back to its true nature it once had. Dodging nukes now will be much more difficult and will bring its power back to its former glory. The skill of us vets should have no problem with this, comeon vets grow a pair. A little more skill effort truly shows whos the better team does it not? Quote: the game advertises strategy not lottery. Strategy in battle is based on a combination of skill and luck. Why take out the luck factor, makes the game much more difficult. This game has gotten way to easy compared to what the old client was. espeacilly when you were only making about 150-200 a tick. Prime skill right there, every unit counts.
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Last edited by skwrel on Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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