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darathmurrough · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 7:50 am

Give your opinion on each of them and any other rebel group you want, I personally count the IRA, ETA, Hamas, Al Queada as all legitamite rebel organisations fighting oppression but many of them ruin themselves by drawing on religion such as hamas and al queada. ETA and the IRA are interesting as both defend their culture and stop it from dissappearing though the IRA had to stop an ethnic cleansing while the ETA had to stop a slow process of the death of their culture, language by full amalgamation with the spanish and french. To be honest i dislike the FARC rebels as they draw nearly all their funds from the drug cartels but to be fair columbia as a whole is corrupt and will likely stay corrupt for a long time no matter who is in power due to the destabalising efforts of the CIA (America realises Capitalism relies on using the limkited resources of the planet on yourself and your nation which leads to other countries being neglected as after all would you want to have the best of stuff for yourself or just enough to keep everyone happy??) who are all over the world with other western nations working to keep the exploitation ongoing. I personally believe the biggest terrorists are the Americans as the allow their government to be agressors in wars so they deserve no respect whatsoever as if the only type of war in the world was a defensive war there would be no wars ;}~

Diazepam · **Joined:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:55 am **Posts:** 1163

I know next to nothing about ETA and FARC, so I won't say anything about them. But al queada and the IRA (hard to say, as they have had so many split-off groups each naming themselves 'IRA' over the years) are terrorists in my eyes. They employ terror tactics, and terrorise civilians to get their message across. In the end, that's what the word 'terrorist' is used to describe.

Whither they believe themselves to be doing the 'right thing' and fighting for freedom or not... They are classed as terrorists to those who have been or are at risk of being terrorised by them.

The bad guys never think they are the bad guys.

darathmurrough · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 8:47 am

Im glad you mentioned the IRA and ETA first as they are my main ones lol, there are many splinter groups of the IRA correct there is the PIRA, the RIRA the CIRA and even the INLA(provisional ira, real ira, continuity ira and Irish Nationalist Liberation Army) Each of these splinter groups occured from silly arguments such as whether to recognise the republic of ireland as an actual government or a puppet state. To discuss your point about terrorising acts lets talk about the sectarianism in the northern province of Ulster (I will try to keep it brief lol) Government jobs were reserved for protestant loyalists,Council houses were reserved for loyalist protestants, the police force at the time the RUC was 100% loyalist protestant and then you had organisations such as the Apprentice boys of derry and the orange order all of who believe in protestant superiority and constantly march every year through catholic areas about the williamite/jacobite wars which occured in the 1600s and how the god appointed protestant king won (funny thing was that he was actually dutch catholic for years until he had a chance to grab the throne). This is the non violent end and the basic social structure, looking at the violent groups you had the B specials who were militia armed by the government who patrolled catholic ghettoes and had the right to deal with anyone they found in there any way they saw fit, all members were recruited from the apprentice boys and the orange order, you had the act of covenant going back to the war of independance where thousands of unionists signed a petition in their own blood stating that they refused to accept what they called "Rome Rule" which was catholic ruledue to the majority of the island being catholic) ironically because they feared discrimination (yet there was never any discrimination to the protestants in the south). The catholics (who later became irish nationalists due to the massive discrimination under the british government) had civil rights marches and protests against unfair council house appointing etc (A single protestant woman got a council house over a family of 8 catholics) and then the government got violent, they had the RUC (now disbanded) and the B specials (also now disbanded) break up all protests and attacks on catholic ghettoes intensified (forgot to mention gerrymandering which was the rigging of election constituencies which allowed loyalist protestants to have a majority in predominantly catholic areas and also the main reason for council house discrimination is because back then you could only vote if you owned a house and the more houses equaled more votes) To counter the attacks on catholic areas the IRA was reformed (it hadnt been inaction since the war of independance was won) to defend catholic areas from the attacks by the government which led to police no go zones such as Free Derry where the residents refused the government forces and the orange order entry and fortified the area. The IRA suceeded in keeping the government forces at bay and so the protestants formed their own forces to counter this. They were the UVF (Ulster Volunteer Force) and many others (they operated on brigade command structures so theres a massive list) who were mainly made up of orange order and apprentice boys members so they had great links with the RUC and the B specials. This organisation was apperently devotedly loyal to the queen and had the goal of stopping the insurrection(they claim that they were discriminating against the catholics because they feared discrimination if the catholics got power) The ira started sniping british officials and refusing government forces entry into their areas and the UVF set out on revenge killings for each casualty by stopping anyone driving a southern registered car and killing them assuming they were catholic as they were from the republic (the UVF alone has more civilian kills than all other factions involved combined) they had the ideal that "for each one of us you kill we will kill 5 of you" With many refugees fleeing south away from this ethnic cleansing the irish governments head had a famous speach which made the british government send troops into NI to calm the situation for fear of an irish invasion (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/nort ... 480506.stm please note this was actually written by the BBC which is an British media organisation yet also states the atrocities against the catholics though they just state them as "nationalists" as the british dont want to be implicated in a religious war lol) the speach was "It is clear also that the Irish government can no longer stand by and see innocent people injured or perhaps worse," and he moved the irish army to the border of the north to provide assistance to the civilians fleeing, I am going to stop here as i could go on for a loooong time, this is just a gist but after this the british army joined with the RUC and the SAS trained the UVF which led to more bloodshed until the ira eventually got the british government to allow power sharing in the north which allows catholics a say and while it isnt perfect as many officials are still against the idea it is a damn sight better than the past.

As for the ETA which is a basque seperatist movement due to the fact that they have a unique language and culture and that they were annexed a long time ago by france and spain. As the united nations stated very country with a unique cultue should have its independence (cant remember the exact quote as its been 2 years since learned it in school lol)

SoulReaperAsh · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 8:51 am

Al Qaeda and hamas , like you said draw too much of religion and ruin themselves eventually..

Quote:

I personally believe the biggest terrorists are the Americans as the allow their government to be agressors in wars so they deserve no respect whatsoever as if the only type of war in the world was a defensive war there would be no wars ;}~

Now you my friend, surely knows what's right and wrong.

I personally think the same

oh and you also forgot about the Kurdish rebels -i believe, they are similar to the ETA , as they fight to bring back and defend the real turkish culture- well, the reason is ...they are the only ACTUAL/ORIGINAL turks that had survived over the eons ,and they have currently have the support of 1000s of people.
well, there are a lot of other rebels present too, but since we are talking about the main ones, maybe i shall not bring it over here?

darathmurrough · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 8:54 am

You are free to speak about any Terrorist/Rebel group currently existing or that once existed here as long as you state wether they are right or wrong ;}~, it gives us all a bit of prospective as bd is made up of people from many cultures and so have different theories about each organisation ;}~

Diazepam · **Joined:** Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:55 am **Posts:** 1163

I couldn't read that huge wall of bright green text without my sunglasses... I'll make another attempt at it later tonight :lol:

mfreak · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 11:07 am

Any of these groups if they are using violent means, targeting civilians, using the same violent means for propagandizing their cause - then that's terrorism. Be it use of religion or not.

Any nationalist movement, that seeks to preserve culture, but also includes lots of violence and racism, is again....well, may not be terrorist, but atleast they are illegal, and if they are not, they should be. I mean parties like the Golden Dawn, the Russian RNSP, the former Nazi scum etc., Cuz they will target a particular group of people. So that's terror in a way.

Basically there is a way you fight for things. Violence is not one of them.

But I agree, the United States uses the same terror tactics to subdue nations. For its own financial gain. And uses propaganda to garner support.

mrducky · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 11:53 am

im with mfreak here.

Terrorism is a non state entity employing violence on a civilian population to coerce and incite terror for political, religious or other goals.

in many of those organisations, you can argue they are fighting for freedom, but that doesnt mean they are not terrorists.
oh and green is my colour D:<

vaultdweller101 · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 3:27 pm

Just a question: does the US openly attack and target civilians?

darathmurrough · **Posted:** Thu May 17, 2012 3:29 pm

The IRA won the war by adapting a brilliant tactic in britain, they blew the beep out of all their main business centres such as their stock exchange, their banks and their businesses all of which had phoned warnings by the IRA so there was no casualties (Except for a braindead photographer who snuck in to try get a pic and subsequently got blown to bits) and abstained from retaliating for the murders happening in the north (the Shankill butcher boys were a buch of unionists specially trained by the SAS in squashing insurrection and did it by going at known IRA members sisters/mothers/wives/brothers/cousins etc with some hardware tools and not stopping until that noisy heart beat its last) as they knew the british wanted all the collateral damage to happen in the north not somewhere they actually cared about and guess what??The IRAs tactic worked!!

! british gave them powersharing, released all IRA members locked up at the time and has massive inquisitions into the north. If it wasnt for "Terrorists" my family in the north wouldnt be as well off (though it aint perfect atm) France would still be an absolute monarchy, the US would be nonexistant, britan wouldnt have a parliment for commoners, the iberian peninsula would be ruled by franco no wait it would be split into aragon, castille and leon no wait it would be muslim no wait......................................................etc, every nation on the planet resulted from "terrorism" and nearly all of them were justified at the time and corrupted over the generations until a new breed popped up............................its called the circle of life :lol:

IRA,ETA,FARC,Al Queada,Hamas-Terrorists or Freedom fighters?